Affiliates vs Operators? The Real Problem Nobody Talks About | Shahar Attias | Hybrid Interaction

iGaming Real Talk is launching the next series. This is the fourth event out of the 11 events we're doing this year, and I'm very excited to bring you the insights from the expo floor. This time on the affiliate as well as operator relationships, as well as what's missing in the industry, what's the trend, what are we looking at when it comes to 2026, 2027, and beyond in terms of the trends, AI, and everything else. This series is brought to you by Evoplay.

They offer custom crypto casino solutions as well as source code. This series is also brought to you by Wicked Games. They create slot games that slap. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of iGaming Real Talk. I'm here with Shahar from Hybrid Interaction. We have known each other for a very long time. He's a famous LinkedIn personality as well. And we've been planning this chat for a long time, and now we have the opportunity finally. So, Shahar, welcome to the show.

And I'm here with Surya. With iGaming Real Talk. We've known each other for ever.

Yeah.

And I have nothing but the best, the highest level of respect for you. So,

Thank you. Thank you. Let's talk.

Let's talk. Yeah, I mean, your main topic is CRM and retention. So, we're going to focus a little bit over there. But, since we are here at Alfapapa, let's also talk about affiliates and the traffic.

Sure. Affiliates and the traffic, but according to the stats, operators almost lose 60 to 70% in the first month.

Okay. What's the biggest... It depends on the market, but generalize.

Yes, on a universal level. So, what's the biggest mistake you think operators make working with affiliates?

It's kind of toxic relationship in which both sides try to put the full responsibility on the other side.

Oh.

Not understanding that they are in a relationship, meaning it's like a toxic relationship.

Yeah.

In which both sides try to put the full blame on the other one. If you have problems with the conversion or with the players leaving fast the gaming activity, then it's affiliate. They've sent us shitty traffic.

Okay.

And the other end, affiliates, let's say leave the image of somebody who's just like clicking a button and get, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars because people come to their website.

I like the way you put it. You have a way of saying things, but essentially, I think what you're saying is there's too much focus on acquisition. Is that...

I want to say that it's both of them.

Yeah.

Okay. So, affiliates do also their part of the equation, and then they look into the stats and say, "Okay, but I cannot get any retention for these guys. I will not send traffic to them anymore."

Yeah.

Because their CRM is shit, okay?

It's a problem.

It's a problem. Both of them are in this together, and they do need to have something going on correctly.

Yeah.

The biggest mistake is indeed not taking accountability over their own mistakes.

Yeah.

And if there's one thing that I would advise to change is I don't know what system they're using, but if it's not real time, then don't use them. The one advice would be work real time.

Yeah.

Because...

Are there platforms that do that at the moment?

Pretty much all of the major ones, they offer real time functionality either as part of the package or as an additional feature. But yes, without that the attention level of the player is so limited that if you cannot maximize your offering while they are logged in,

Yeah.

It's becoming an uphill battle.

How do they do that?

So, imagine. I'll share a secret with you, okay?

Only on Real Talk, yes.

How me and Daddy loves each other very much. About 50% of the conversion...

Mhm.

Registration to first deposit happens within the first few minutes, okay? And I'm not talking about 2 hours, I'm not talking about 1 hour 30. It's roughly between, let's say, 5 to 8 minutes, you'll get 50% of the conversions. Which means that if you have a player that is still online after seven, eight minutes, there's a problem.

Yeah.

Okay. Let's say that you own a store. The analogy would be somebody who is picking up stuff, let's say, clothes or whatever...

Okay. Okay.

Viagra pill, whatever you're selling, okay? Walking with the items in their hands, okay? Looking for the cashier, don't find it, put it on an empty shelf, and leaves.

Yeah.

Okay? There needs to be better. Somebody needs to contact this person right now when they are logged in and either entice them with another offering or with a better offering.

From affiliate defense, they don't have control over what happens after.

So...

And also we operators do not share information. Yeah, I mean, if I'm an affiliate,

Yes.

What should I do in this case? As in, because, you know, now we're also looking at and hearing that operators want to focus more on the lifetime value.

Yes.

The CPA deals are getting higher.

Yes.

Revshare deals are getting squeezed.

Yes.

So, what's the difference for affiliates?

Well, it does make sense because by the end of the day if the player lasts... I mean if we know that most of the players do not go for the very initial aggressive thresholds of conversion and retention in the first few days, then those that do last, okay, with them we know what to do. Yes, we have gamification, we have retention tools, we have more technical and procedural measures that we could apply on them. The cake is very small, but it's very tasty. Okay?

So, if I'm paying CPA at this point, the player is already fully mine. So, I can get more out of him. If I'm paying revshare, I will have to continue pay percentage going forward from the few players that actually get to this point.

Mhm.

So, it does make sense for the operators. And from the affiliate side, I think there should be constant...

Emphasis.

Emphasis and pursue of ongoing communication. Meaning, reach out to the operator saying, we can tell you we work with, we see the industry the way others don't, okay?

Yeah.

You as an operator, you have no access to KPIs from others. You have two options, speak with affiliates or speak with us.

Yeah.

Because only CRM agencies can provide information on, like you know, how does it look from the behind the scenes. So, you reach out to the affiliate to the operator and you tell, look we work with others. You do not perform as good as the others. Let's try together to figure out why. Is it that you don't have the right tech? Is it that you don't have the right talent?

Or maybe we need to come up with a different offering because I send you players that are interested in X and you just throw at them your generic marketing. If I'm focused on a certain set of keywords that brings you players that look like that, okay? And you instead just give them "we are a casino, come deposit".

Generic one.

Yes, then it doesn't add up. So.

And when we look at the crypto casino wave, which is now everyone is wanting to start a crypto casino and that's the trend at the moment as I see. So, do you think streamers are taking over the traditional SEO affiliates as you see it?

So, I don't know if it's already in the position in which you could say that it's like taking over meaning over 50%.

Yeah. Oh, really?

No, I'm saying I don't think it's that big. Is it way more prominent and an important source than it used to be 5 years ago, 4 years ago, 3 years ago, 2 years ago, 1 year ago? Yes, it is going, it's probably the fastest going, I would assume. Okay. Does it change the type of players that the operators get?

Yeah. And the lifetime value from what you see from the data.

I would set the differentiation, let's call it point, earlier. Meaning they would behave differently versus let's say SEO PPC type of players up until a certain point, but after that I think they are the same. They do have a certain advantage that other affiliates don't.

Okay.

Which is they are still talking with their players even after the conversion.

Yeah.

Okay, because their player was there because he's following...

It's more like a community.

Exactly. He's following the streamer and he will not stop following the streamer because he's now playing on a crypto casino. Okay?

They follow the streamer.

Exactly. So, with the right level of let's call it affinity, holistic approach, okay? A CRM campaign from the operator could be also highlighted by the streamer which is the affiliate source to get the players into the operator and they could say, "Okay, if you're already on this, then this weekend for the World Cup...

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Whatever, stream events follow, they're offering this and that.

Okay.

Okay.

Cool. Well, thank you so much for joining me for this very quick chat. I look forward to another chat. Actually, you know, there's one funny thing that I need to mention. Whenever I see your Chiefs Clash...

Yes.

I think I read it as Chef's Clash.

[laughter]

For some reason, I've always been reading it as Chef's Clash.

Maybe you were hungry.

[laughter]

But it's good. It's good. I like the format. There's always like four or more people. There's fun. There's not just business. So...

To get you.

On one of the episodes, I... Could I be chief as well?

You could be a chef.

[laughter]

Well, I mean, thank you so much again for joining me. Finally, we had this chat. So, that's it, guys, for this mini episode. Follow Shahar if you don't already. You might already, but if you don't, follow him on LinkedIn as well as check out Hybrid Interaction. And finally, let us know your thoughts in the comments below. Wherever you're watching, LinkedIn, YouTube, Insta. If you have any questions for Shahar as well, and then I'll see you on the next show. Thank you.

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